2.13 define done-ness - it's less obvious than you think!
lately, i've been asking people to define not just the tasks they want to focus on - but how they'll know when that task is done. and it's a LOT harder than you might think it is! this week's episode gives you two strategies for figuring out doneness, and debunks a PERSISTENT myth about how other people know when they're done. get into it!
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If the answer to this question was easy. I wouldn't need to record a whole podcast about it. Let's talk about how to know when you are done on this episode of
📍 Welcome to Grad School is Hard, But... A Thrive PhD podcast. I'm Dr. Katy Peplin and this is a show for everyone who's doing the hard work of being a human and a scholar. And in season two, I'll introduce you to various tools that might make the hard stuff from writing to managing your time to taking care of your brain just a little bit easier.
And if you like what you hear on this podcast, you're going to love what I have cooked up for you in summer camp. More details in the show notes. Now let's get into it.
As part of the planning process for the sprint kickoff that I run in the summer camp program, I ask people to define not only what tasks they're going to work on over the course of the two weeks, but crucially how they know when that task is done. And you'd be surprised, or maybe you wouldn't be by how difficult an answer that can be.
If it were easier to know when things were done. I think a lot of academic planning, estimation, deadlines would be a lot easier because it'd be a concrete finish line. You're done preparing for exams when you've read all the books. You are ready to turn in that draft when it exists. But as we know those questions, aren't as clear cut. They aren't as black and white as we might want them to be. And that gray area invites in all kinds of new friends to play like perfectionism, avoidance anxiety, because your definition of done and everyone else's might be really different from one another.
So let's get into what kinds of tasks it's really important to define and done point for and how you might go about doing that.
Now. Raise your hand. Or don't, I mean, you're listening to a podcast, so I can't really tell, but raise your hand if you have ever thought. Okay. I wish that somebody would just give me a to-do list for everything that I need to do in order to have this project be done. Just give me a to-do list for my dissertation. I don't care if it's 600 things long. I want to see every single step so that I can check it out.
So that I can check them off one by one. It might take me years, but I will have my list and I will feel secure in my list hood. Now I have begged for such a list. I've had clients beg me for a list themselves and I regret to inform you that it really doesn't exist. And partially because there is no standard for when something is done.
For example. Take something like a draft of a piece of writing your advisor might leave you with a common refrain that says, come back to me when your draft is done and I'll give you some feedback and you say, great. That makes sense. As soon as the draft is done, I'll come back and then you work on it.
And you work on it and you work on it and then it's not really clear to you when it's done. Is it done when all of the pros exists, even if some of it is a little bit rough, is it done when all of the citations are there? Is it done when every table and figure is complete and in the document? Is it done when it's copy edited? Is it done when it's formatted or is it done at some other mysterious time that you don't really know about.
In just that one example, we can see where there are multiple invitations for your brain to jump in and either tell you that something is done way before it is. Or much more likely to stall you from the next step because you are pretty sure that your version of done isn't as good as what other people are expecting.
So in this week's episode, I really want to give you a couple of tools to define doneness. Not because they will protect you from feedback. Not because they are guaranteed to be the same definition of doneness as your advisor. Or your editor or whomever else you're submitting work to, but because they bring clarity to what can otherwise be a foggy finished line.
One way to measure doneness is to measure against the requirements. This is one of those situations where on paper, it seems really simple. Yes. Find the requirements for what a dissertation chapter must be, meet the requirements. And then I am done. But I don't know about you. Nobody handed me a list and said, here are the requirements for your dissertation chapter. It needs to be this number of pages. It needs to be this number of citations. It needs to be this level of formatted. People just said, come back when your draft is done and expected me to know what that meant.
Now. If you're in a program that gives you really clear guidelines. Enjoy them. Uh, feel free to skip ahead a couple of seconds, but if you don't. There's two ways to go about defining the requirements. The first way is to find a completed object that is similar to what you're trying to do. So in the case of a dissertation chapter, this might be somebody else's chapter that you're looking at, maybe an older graduate student who's a couple of years ahead of you is willing to share, you know, an in progress drafts so that you can see it.
But that's one way, find an example and then extrapolate backwards. If there's was 50 pages, then yours is probably going to be about 50 pages. If they cited 15 different sources, then you know, that 15 sources is probably closer to the ballpark than 30 or 50 or a hundred sources. It's not perfect.
But it will give you a ballpark estimate around about close enough estimate that will help, you know, when you've met all of the requirements. And if you meet the requirements, then you're done. The second level. The second way to know if you are done is to measure it against a deadline and your ideal plan.
So I sometimes refer to this is the Jedi mind trick effect. I had an advisor who only wanted to see what she described as polished writing. She didn't want to see anything in new draft version. She didn't want to see any bullet points or any placeholder references. She really wanted to see something polished, which meant that the space between when I could use feedback on my writing and what it was actually done enough to send to her was a pretty big space, months sometimes even. And so I had to build in a couple of extra deadlines and supports for myself, whether it was through a writing group or exchanging drafts with friends. Or doing what I would call a Jedi mind trick where I would finish up the chapter. I would know there were big holes in it. I would know that certain sections weren't as defined as other sections or that she might have feedback about things, but I would stop it at like 70% complete content-wise and then I would spend three or four days polishing up what I had.
I would go ahead and do all the formatting. I would add in the footnotes. I would make the tabs the way they were. We're supposed to be, and then I would send it to her. Knowing that it wasn't a complete draft, but it looked like a complete draft and it read like a complete draft. That way when she invariably had comments, I would go back and say, great. Thank you. That's awesome.
It was the only way for me to get feedback on my work in progress, and actually be able to revise it according to these requirements, that for whatever reason she was unwilling or unable to give me outright.
So, if you can't measure against the requirements, you can go with way two, which is do your best to make sure that it looks like it's done and acts like it's done. And then get that feedback. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It doesn't feel good to send in work that, you know, could be better. But more often than not the earlier you engage the feedback. The earlier you engage the next step of the process, whatever comes after being done with the phase that you're on. So if that means being done with the research, it means the sooner you can start writing it up.
It might be that the sooner you get a draft, your advisor, the sooner you have comments to revise, or the sooner that you send something out to a journal, the sooner they send it back to you. With, you know, their journal Lee. Judgment. The idea here is that being done- even if it feels a little uncomfortable, even if you receive feedback that things need to be improved- is ultimately a much faster way to move through the process .
Because I'm here to let you in on a little secret. I have not. In all of my years of working with clients of working on things myself. I met anyone who has an internal switch that flips and says, ah, yes, this thing is done. This paper's ready. This chapter is complete. This dissertation is ready to go.
Everyone's doneness this is at least partially. Constrained by an outside force, whether that is your funding running out or your maternity leave or your advisor going off break for the summer, there's a thousand things that could create an external circumstance, but often your doneness is defined at least in part by this external circumstance that may or may not even be related to your work.
Your dissertation is done because you need it to be defended in August so that you can start your job in September. Your journal article is ready to go back to the journal because they asked for it to be backed by this specific date. So, if you're waiting for this kind of mysterious sense of satisfaction to know that something's done, then, in my experience, you're going to be waiting a long time. But overall. If you have a task that's on your task list this week, or for this summer, I really encourage you to take a couple of extra minutes and decide how you will know when that task is done.
It won't guarantee that you don't spend an extra couple of days polishing or that you don't have some sort of emotional wobbles at the end , worrying about whether this is actually good enough, but by defining doneness, you won't be waiting around for this abstract, somewhat mysterious sense that this is ready to go.
Now you will have an outside list of requirements, maybe written down, maybe in your head that will help you judge that doneness. And then you can be on to the next thing. Because if there's one thing that's true about grad school, that there will always be a next thing.
And if this is the kind of thinking that really appeals to you, then you might want to check out summer camp.
Summer camp is built around two weeks, sprints that are going to help you work more intentionally and also rest more intentionally. Join us for the sessions that work for your schedule. Skip the ones that don't and know that there are all sorts of benefits and perks. There are planning courses, live events, small group cabins, so that you can get to know people, A camp fire to work around chat, share resources and much more. The link in the bio has all of the information about various packages. That'll save you money, sliding scale payment plans.
Session one is already underway, but session two starts on May 29th. And like I said, these are going on all summer long. If you are interested in joining us. Use the code podcast for 10% off. Any sliding scale level or payment plan. Thanks so much. And I hope to see you around either the camp neighborhood or back here in this space next week.
📍 Thank you for listening to Grad School is Hard, but... You can find more information and resources in the show notes and at thrive-phd.com. Every month, I'll select one reviewer for a free 45 minute session with me. So please subscribe, rate, and review to help spread the word about the show. Thanks so much and I'll see you again soon!
15 - Why is staying on top of your to-do's so hard?
episode 15 - Why is staying on top of your to-do's so hard?
I used to live a nice, peaceful life where I made a cute little to-do list in the morning, and then I spent the day checking things off, and then once it was empty, I felt so good! Maybe I never had that - but it sounds great, doesn't it?? Staying on top of what you need to do and when is so hard as a grad student, but this episode has some comfort that you're not alone, and importantly, three things you could try today to help with that overwhelming feeling of a list that keeps getting longer, no matter what you do...
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Welcome to Grad School is Hard, But... A Thrive PhD podcast. I'm Dr. Katy Peplin and this is a show for everyone who's doing the hard work of being a human and a scholar. We'll talk about why some of these things are so hard, and how that difficulty is showing up for you. Each episode has practical strategies to experiment with -- just because it's hard now doesn't mean it always has to be.
You can get my free working more intentionally toolkit@thrive-phd.com or the link in the show notes. If you want to go even deeper with the work.
If there's one thing I know for certain it's that if you're listening to this right now, There are things on your to-do list. If I'm lucky listening to the new episode is right at the top, but I'm sure that there are important things, urgent things, things from two weeks ago. Things your boss put on there that all need to get done soon.
Now. Before. So why is it so hard to manage it, to do list? Let's talk about that. On today's episode.
One of the reasons that I think it's so hard to manage it, to do list both as a person, as a scholar and both of those things as a grad student, is that you truly can never get to the bottom. Just like we've talked about in other episodes, there's so much scope creep in academia. So even if you did theoretically finish everything that you wanted to do for the day,
You could work ahead. You could get started on something else. You could pick up a project from the not right now file. There's so many things to do that it's really hard to be like, yes, I'm caught up or yes, I have everything checked off. It also can be really hard as a grad student because other people can add to that, to do list.
Your students can add to it. The professor that you TA for can add to it. Your boss can add to it. Maybe your spouse or your colleagues or your co-authors. It's not as if we all go to our own special scholar room, we work on the tasks ahead of us, and then we leave that room.
We're working in busy, collaborative, interactive environments. And that means that sometimes other people put stuff on your list. Even if it's not the most important thing to you. I know that one thing that would drive me bananas as a grad student would be that I would have the whole day planned out.
I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I would sit down at my desk and suddenly there was an email from the professor I was TA for, or my advisor or a conference committee or someone, and all of the sudden. My to-do list completely changed everything that I thought I needed to get done that day. Everything that I needed to get done that day had to be put on hold.
You just don't have full control over your to-do list and that's just with your work stuff. Because you probably also have a few lists going. I know that if I look at my task manager right now, I have work tasks. I have home tasks. I have family tasks. I have things for my hobbies. I have things for my projects. It's wild. How many different things I have going.
And unfortunately, I don't also have different versions of myself with their own 24 hours and their own set of spoons and energy. To do all of those things. I wish that there was one version of me for every list that needed to get done. You probably have a few lists going, but you've only got one body, one brain.
1 24 hours to get things done.
Let's dig into some of those questions to consider, to see how you feel about your to-do lists. What's working, what isn't, before we get into those experiments, that might just help you get a little bit of a handle on what's going on. Let's get into it.
What feels good for you in terms of to-do lists, do you love checking everything off and being done at the end of the day?
Do you love estimating correctly and having a certain amount of time and energy that you can allocate, but what are the behaviors that really make that brain chemical sparkle explosion go off in your head? When it comes to getting things done?
A question to consider. Where do you keep your to-do list? Is it an app that syncs between all of your devices and you can access at any time. Is it an app plus also wherever you manage to jot things down when you're in the kitchen, whatever scrap of napkin or grocery list that is.
Is it in a bunch of different places. Do you have shared lists with other people? But where do you keep your to-do list?
And then last but not least. How do you manage tasks that are in the not right now category? You know, those things that, you know, you need to get done, but not in the next hour or maybe not in the next day.
In other words, how do you capture all of those to do's that you'll need to get to eventually, but you're definitely not going to be doing right now.
Okay. Let's dig into these experiments because if there are anything like me, you're constantly looking for new ways, new programs, new systems to help manage just the onslaught of things that you need to do.
The first experiment to try is to, if you never have experiment with the to-do list manager. So I'm not necessarily going to go on the record as to which to do list manager, I think is best. A dirty little secret that I have is I think that most of them share about 80% of the same functions. And the other 20 are things that you probably won't use anyway.
But. If you've never had a, to do list manager that allows you to separate tasks, set tasks to repeat. Or filter tasks out so that you can only see some at a certain time. Then you might be ready for a level up. One of the things that I love about task managers is being able to automate a certain number of the tasks, the things that I do regularly, but I can also forget to do like.
Sending a newsletter or cleaning out my downloads folder or the conference paper that needs to be submitted in three months. But I don't need to think about for three months minus one week. That to-do list manager can help you store some of those. To do's that you don't have the space or the energy to deal with right now and show them to you at a time and space where you might.
You can do this in to-do list, click up notion. There's all sorts of different apps, but if you are working in a place where it's basically a list and you hope that you've got everything. Then I'm sorry to tell you, or maybe I'm excited to tell you that grad school is hard enough without trying to keep all of those tasks all in your brain at the same time.
Offload a little bit of it into the computer. It might just help you.
Experiment number two comes to you by way of one of my darling dearest clients. This is something that they mentioned to me that is a tool that they used when they're feeling particularly overwhelmed.
I thought, Hey, that sounds great. And I've been using it ever since, just for myself and recommending it everywhere I can. It's pretty simple. You grab a post-it note or a piece of paper, if you're feeling particularly overwhelmed and you just write down one thing on it, one task, one post-it note.
I tend to write pretty small. So I'm a lot more like three tasks, one post-it note. But the idea is pretty simple. Everyone has too much to do too much to focus on. And if you're really drowning in that place where, oh, I can't pick, which is going to be the most efficient, I don't know what's going to be the most effective.
And this experiment might really help you just pick something.
Sure. There are some tasks that are dependent on each other. But usually, you know what those are and you know that you can't do one without starting the other. So this is for those moods. When you know that it might be a little bit more efficient, five, 10% maybe to start somewhere else, but you don't want to, you don't feel like it, or you simply can't decide this. You just pick three things, you put them on a post-it note. You do those three things. Repeat.
This is , a great experiment to use in conjunction with a task manager or a longer to do list. . It's a lot like zooming in. You focus the camera on just the first thing, maybe the second or third thing that you're going to do. And then you repeat, there's probably not going to be any end to the bucket of tasks that you're drawing from.
But this lets you just sort of say, yeah, there might be an infinite number of ways to do it, but I'm using this method. This post-it note to just do these one or two things.
And last, but not least might be a revolutionary experiment if you've never tried it. I challenge you in this experiment to clear out 10, 15, maybe even 20% of your tasks. This is a real stale task. Clean-out is what I call it. Basically it's about saying there are some things that I thought I was going to do.
But in the harsh light of today, I'm not doing them. Or it's no longer as useful for me to do them. Or it's just not what I want to do anymore. Uh, Two weeks ago, I thought I did. And now I don't a month ago. I thought I did. And now I don't. Part of what gets so overwhelming is that we have so many things that we could be doing that gets suggested things that we start and then life changes.
Our scholarship changes, our research changes, and we kind of have to say like, okay, This was a really good idea two months ago. And now I don't think it is anymore. I love a stale task clean-out because it helps you remember that you don't have to do everything just because you thought you might.
Of course. There are some tasks that you do need to do. There's some things. That you need to be accountable for. There are certainly some things that just saying, I'm not going to do this. We'll get you out of it. But for all of those things that are more in the should category, I should read that paper. I should catch up on this method. I should send that email. I should follow up on that connection.
put it in its own category and clean it out from time to time.
Like I said up top. There are only so many hours in a day and you don't have, as far as I know. Six different versions of yourself that are pursuing six different projects with six different to-do lists all simultaneously.
So, this is just acknowledging that you're allowed to change your mind. You're allowed to say this was a good idea. Back then. And now. It's not as good of an idea as these other 15 things that I want to do even more.
Unfortunately. We might never get to the place where we feel like everything is completely checked off. But that doesn't mean that you don't get to take a break. It doesn't mean that you don't get to stop for the night or stop for the weekend. And if you have a to-do list that lets you zoom in, zoom out, filter, no matter what the mechanism is, it can really help you get into the habit of saying I didn't do everything, but I did enough for today.
And that mindset switch is one of the things that's going to make grad school a lot less hard. See you next week.
📍 Thank you for listening to Grad School is Hard, but... You can find more information and resources in the show notes and at thrive-phd.com. And if you're liking what you're hearing, please subscribe, rate, and review to help other people find the show. Thanks so much and I'll see you again soon!